Hi,
I really hope that somebody here can help me and enlighten me on this doubt since Sony put a lot of effort in not answering my questions about their camcorder DCR-SR60, SR62, SR80, SR82. I know, it was hard for me to believe it too; that’s why I’m posting here below all the emails between Sony and me.
After 53 days of asking the same simple question, they have had no intention to give an answer to my simple doubt about Sony Camcorder DCR-SR60 not reaching the Maximum Effective Pixel Quality promised on its Specifications.
It is evident that, after 53 days of asking why, they have no intention to explain why they don't want to answer my simple question.
They leave no other option to deduce that the reason of their denial in answering is that it is not convenient for Sony to admit that the Maximum Effective Pixel Quality is not really the one promised by the Specification (690k pixles) but that it really is much lower (about the half of it) therefore noticeably lowering the actual value of the Camcorder.
It is not difficult to see how this is a cause of fraud (either intentional or not) by Sony on either one or more of its camcorder.
Ok, here we go with the eMails:
MAY 29TH
CETier2Support@am.sony.com
Hi Richard,
Thank you very much for your kindness and patience. Here is for you a detailed explanation of what is the problem with my camcorder
It's about the maximum recording quality. As the Manual specifications and the original website's specifications state: the maximum actual Video Quality should be:
(16:9) 670K pixels (= 1100x619 pixels)
(4:3) 690K pixels (= 959x719 pixels)
Well, after several tests here are the qualities that the camcorder has showed (for 4:3):
High HQ: 386K pixels (720x536 pixels)
Standard SQ: 386K pixels (720x536 pixels)
Low LQ: 93K pixels (352x264 pixels)
The three qualities have, as expected, the same fps and kbps:
30 fps
9100 kbps
As you can see there is no difference between SQ and HQ, as a matter of fact the maximum quality is almost half of the promised by the Manual, Soni's Web and your listing and namely: 386K pixels instead of 690K pixels.
If you want I can also send you 3 clips of a few seconds of the same recorded scene with the 3 qualities to show you how, also by the naked eye, there is no difference between SQ and HQ (and that the space in MegaBytes is also the same).
I hope that the origin of the problem is only in the Software/Firmware of the camcorder and that it can be fixed by "reinstalling" it.
Now, I have actually chosen to buy this camcorder only and specifically because I needed such promised High Quality for my work.
Many other much cheaper camcorders (just like my old one, sold to buy this) in the market are able to produce that quality of only 386k pixels (720x536 pixels) just like all the Models "Jvc Evrio GZ-MG" and "Sony DCR-SR 40 or 42", etc...
After an extensive search I had finally decided to buy the SR60 because, of all the models that offered 690k Pixels of actual video quality (like SR 62, 80, 82, etc..), it was the cheapest.
What can I do? Please, I hope you can help me.
Sincerely,
Giovanni
MAY 29TH
Mr. Guttadauro,
What tests are you performing? How do you get the following data?
High HQ: 386K pixels (720x536 pixels)
Standard SQ: 386K pixels (720x536 pixels)
Low LQ: 93K pixels (352x264 pixels)
Thank You
like.no.other
Sony Electronics Inc.
Richard Koch
Product Specialist
CE Tier II Customer Support
Richard.Koch@am.SONY.com
16530 Via Esprillo
San Diego, CA 92127
MD # 3210
fax: (858) 942-9355
Sony eSupport - Electronics
MAY 29TH
Hello,
The tests consist in:
1. Record 2 seconds in each quality (at 4:3 or 16:9).
2. Copy the recorded clip on a Laptop.
3. Observe the clips using several Video Editing Software.
4. Extract information such as Image Size in Pixels, Frames per Second, KiloBytes per Second...
I get that data with the following Formula:
MegaPixels = Height(pixels) * Width(pixels)
After I have seen what Height and Width of Video Image I get from each clip relative to each quality, for example 720x536pixels (at 4:3), I multiply Height by Width to get the definition in MegaPixels:
720 x 536 pixels = 386000 pixels = 386 k pixels = 0.386 MegaPixels
Which is about the half of the quality at which it should record.
If the camcorder would work correctly it should record, at HQ, with a picture size of 690 K pixels (= 959 x 719 pixels) at 4:3.
If you have any other question, don't hesitate to ask.
Gio.
JUNE 5TH
Hello Mr. Koch,
I was wondering if you already have an answer about my camcorder,
Sincerely,
Gio.
JUNE 5TH
Mr. Guttadauro,
Our engineers have researched your issue and do not see any discrepancy or misstatements in our specifications for the capability ((16:9) 670K pixels, (4:3) 690K pixels). They feel that perhaps you are comparing lines of resolution to pixels as in 720 x 480 pixels. Also, they didn’t know where you were getting the 536 number from.
Regardless if you feel the camera is not operating properly I can set you up for service to have it checked out.
The differences in video quality between HQ and SP recording modes are indeed minimal as they relate to time and compression rather than number of pixels.
There are no firmware updates available for this camera at this time, and as it was just released, there are none planned for the near future.
like.no.other
Sony Electronics Inc.
Richard Koch
Product Specialist
CE Tier II Customer Support
Richard.Koch@am.SONY.com
16530 Via Esprillo
San Diego, CA 92127
MD # 3210
fax: (858) 942-9355
Sony eSupport - Electronics
JUNE 5TH
Hello Mr Koch,
Thank you for your answer.
I also agree that there are any discrepancies or misstatements in the specifications. Nonetheless, I believe that the SR60 that I have purchased doesn't reach those specifications for some problem.
Before sending it to Warranty Repair I would first like to be sure that I'm not right in saying that my camcorder is faulty (which I strongly believe) and would like to understand one thing.
What I would like to know is:
What should be, according to Sony's engineers, the picture size while recording with the 690K pixels (=690000 pixels) HQ definition (at 4:3)?
720 x 480 pixels = 345600 pixels?
If that is so, then it doesn't make sense to me, since 720 x 480 pixels is not a 4:3 ratio. It actually is a " 4.5":3 ratio.
Picture sizes in 4:3 ratio are, for example:
640 x 480 pixels = 307200 pixels
720 x 540 pixels = 388800 pixels
But then, in this case, with the correct 4:3 ratio, it is still not a definition of 690000 pixels (HQ).
Finally, if we would simultaneously fulfill the conditions of having a ratio of 4:3 and a definition of 690000 pixels the correct definition would be:
959 x 719 pixels = 690000 pixels
or approximately:
960 x 720 pixels = 691200 pixels
Now, my SR60 when recording in HQ at 4:3 it doesn't records a video with a picture size of 959 x 719 pixels (equivalent to the 690000 pixels shown in the specifications). Instead of that it records a video with a picture size of 720 x 536 pixels (which is a perfect 4:3 ratio and which is equivalent to 386000 pixels). Now this happens to be exactly the same resolution with which the camcorder records in SQ at 4:3. It doesn't only records in HQ and SQ with the same Picture Size, but also with the same amount of space used in the Hard Drive (approx. 1.1MB/sec).
In order to know if I'm correct saying that my SR60 is faulty, it is very important for me to understand:
What should be, according to Sony's engineers, the picture size while recording with the 690K pixels (=690000 pixels) HQ definition (at 4:3 and at 16:9)?
sincerely,
Gio.
JUNE 8TH
Hello Mr Koch,
I'm sending you down here again the email that I've sent you 3 days ago because, since you haven't answered yet, I guess you haven't received it because of some problem with our servers...
Sincerely,
Gio.
JUNE 8TH
Mr. Guttadauro,
I have escalated this issue to our escalation engineers for review. I will email you their response as soon as they get back to me. I apologize for the delay.
like.no.other
Sony Electronics Inc.
Richard Koch
Product Specialist
CE Tier II Customer Support
Richard.Koch@am.SONY.com
16530 Via Esprillo
San Diego, CA 92127
MD # 3210
fax: (858) 942-9355
Sony eSupport - Electronics
JUNE 11TH
Mr. Guttadauro,
According to our engineers you are comparing TV scan lines to pixels. This is incorrect, since the number of pixels on a given scanned line of resolution can vary.
Remember their first response was ‘Our engineers have researched your issue and do not see any discrepancy or misstatements in our specifications for the capability ((16:9) 670K pixels, (4:3) 690K pixels).’ With the key being ‘They feel that perhaps you are comparing lines of resolution to pixels as in 720 x 480 pixels.’
Again, if you feel there is something wrong with your camera I would be glad to set you up for service and our service technicians can check out your camera for you. Even though there is nothing to indicate there is a problem with your camera.
Thank You.
Richard Koch
Product Specialist
CE Tier II Customer Support
Richard.Koch@am.SONY.com
like.no.other
Sony Electronics Inc.
JUNE 11TH
Thank you very much for your answer.
Nevertheless my question is not answered yet and it would really help me understand if I'm wrong. Here I write my question again:
"Before sending it to Warranty Repair I would first like to be sure that I'm right in saying that my camcorder is faulty (which I strongly belive) and would like to understand one thing.
What I would like to know is:
What should be, according to Sony's engineers, the picture size in Pixels while recording with the 690K pixels (=690000 pixels) HQ definition (at 4:3)?"
Sincerely,
JUNE 13TH
Hello,
I'm sending you again down here the email I've sent you 2 days ago.
I hope you can answer my question because it is very important for me to know the answer:
What should be, according to Sony's engineers, the picture size in Pixels while recording with the 690K pixels (=690000 pixels) HQ definition (at 4:3)?"
sincerely,
G.G.
JUNE 13TH
Mr. Guttadauro,
I have forwarded you email on to the escalation dept for review and will hopefully receive a reply by tomorrow.
Thank you for your patience.
like.no.other
Sony Electronics Inc.
Richard Koch
Product Specialist
CE Tier II Customer Support
Richard.Koch@am.SONY.com
16530 Via Esprillo
San Diego, CA 92127
MD # 3210
fax: (858) 942-9355
Sony eSupport - Electronics
JUNE 20TH
Hello Mr. Guttadauro,
Our engineers don’t know what else to tell you except that pixels and scanned lines are two different things. So, they cannot answer your question/s as posed.
I would still be glad to set you up for service on your camera if you feel it is not functioning properly.
Our camera engineers also feel this is not a technical service issue and we would be glad to forward your concern on to Sony’s National Customer Relations Group should you decline service.
Thank You
like.no.other
Sony Electronics Inc.
Richard Koch
Product Specialist
CE Tier II Customer Support
Richard.Koch@am.SONY.com
16530 Via Esprillo
San Diego, CA 92127
MD # 3210
fax: (858) 942-9355
Sony eSupport - Electronics
JUNE 20TH
Hello Mr. Koch,
I know and understand that Pixels and Scanned Lines are 2 different concepts. But that wasn't my question.
Yes, thank you, I would like you to forward my concern to Sony's National Customer Relations Group so that maybe the can answer my questions:
1. What should be, according to Sony's engineers, the picture size in Pixels (Height x Width) while recording with the 690K pixels (=690000 pixels) HQ definition (at 4:3)?
Your answer so far has been:
Our engineers don't know what else to tell you except that pixels and scanned lines are two different things.
So, they cannot answer your question/s as posed.
Referring to the first part of their answer, I know and understand that Pixels and Scanned Lines are 2 different concepts. But that wasn't my question.
Referring to the second part of their answer, I would like to know why they "cannot" answer my question. Hence my second question:
2. "Cannot" Sony's engineers answer my question because they don't know the answer? If so, if they don't know the Width and Height of the recorded image in "Pixels" on what bases do they calculate the information that the camcorder can record in HighQuality at 4:3 with a definition of 690K "pixels" (=690000 "pixels") using the unit of "Pixels"?
The questions are very simple and can be translated as follows:
Once recorded a video at 4:3 in HighQuality, it is available on the camcorder's Hard Drive and it has a set of perfectly defined parameters:
Height (in Scanned Lines)
Height (in Pixels)
Width (in Scanned Lines)
Width (in Pixels)
ect...
I know the Height and Width of this recorded video in "Scanned Lines". Now, do Sony's Engineers know the Height and Width of this recorded video in "Pixels" (not "scanned lines")? Can they determine them? If the camcorder's specifications state that this recorded video in HQ at 4:3 has a quality of 690K "pixels" (=690000 "pixels") they must have had this information in relation to the picture size (Height and Width) with the same unit: "Pixels". If they "cannot" say what's the Height and Width in "pixels", how did they calculate the 690000 pixels?
I really hope Sony's National Customer Relations Group can answer my 2 questions.
Sincerely,
G.G.
JULY 3TH
Hello Mr. Koch,
I'm sending you again the email I've sent you 13 days ago about forwarding my concern to Sony's National Customer Relations Group because, since I haven't received answer yet, I guess you haven't received it yet.
Regards,
Antonio.
JULY 11TH
Mr. Guttadauro,
I have forwarded your request on to Sony National Customer Relations.
You should be hearing from them soon.
Thank you for your patience in this matter.
like.no.other
Sony Electronics Inc.
Richard Koch
Product Specialist
CE Tier II Customer Support
Richard.Koch@am.SONY.com
16530 Via Esprillo
San Diego, CA 92127
MD # 3210
fax: (858) 942-9355
Sony eSupport - Electronics
JULY 16TH
NCR.CISC@am.sony.com
Mr. Guttadauro,
Thank you for contacting Sony.
We apologize that you are unsatisfied with the response you have received from our Sony Technical Support Group. However, you have been provided with all of the information available at this time.
In an attempt to clarify the answer that has already been provided, the specifications of your camcorder are as follows:
690000 is the maximum amount of total pixels captured by the CCD imager.
720 x 480 is the output of the unit through cabling.
We again apologize if this answer does not meet your expectations, however, it is the response that is available as part of Sony’s listed specifications for this model.
Sincerely,
José L. Diaz
Sony National Customer Relations
JULY16TH
Hello,
Thank you for your answer. When you say that "720 x 480 is the output of the unit through cabling" do you refer to 720 x 480 pixels or to 720 x 480 scanned lines?
What should be, according to Sony's engineers, the picture size "in Pixels" (Height x Width) while recording with the 690K pixels (=690000 pixels) HQ definition (at 4:3)?
Sincerely,
JULY17TH
Mr. Guttadauro,
Thanks again for contacting Sony.
720 x 480 is in terms of scanned lines.
Sincerely,
José L. Diaz
Sony National Customer Relations
JULY 17TH
ok thanks,
you say that "answers have already been provided to me" but, as you may find evident, even thought they are answers, they are "not" the answers to my 2 questions because, until now, after 51 days of emails, I have neither been told what is the picture size "in Pixels" for question 1 and nor been told why they don't want to answer question 1:
1. What should be, according to Sony's engineers, the picture size "in Pixels" (Height x Width) while recording with the 690K pixels (=690000 pixels) HQ definition (at 4:3)?
2. "Cannot" Sony's engineers answer my question because they don't know the answer? If so, if they don't know the Width and Height of the recorded image in "Pixels" on what bases do they calculate the information that the camcorder can record in HighQuality at 4:3 with a definition of 690K "pixels" (=690000 "pixels") using the unit of "Pixels"?
Now I may ask you, please, to at least answer this question:
3. Do you really believe that my questions, as you say, have been answered or do you also believe that my questions are "not" answered because, until now, after 51 days of emails, I have not been told what is the picture size "in Pixels" for question 1? Why "do not" Sony's engineers answer my 2 questions?
Sincerely,
Antonio
JULY 18TH
Mr. Guttadauro,
Thanks again for contacting Sony. We apologize if we have not been able to provide a response that meets you expectation. However, the answer provided is the only answer that is being made available by Sony in regards to your question at this time.
Sincerely,
José L. Diaz
Sony National Customer Relations
19.07.2007, 15:38
Fraud? Effective Video Quality lower than specifications DCR-SR60, SR62, SR80, SR82
Fraud? - I don't think so
